By Allison  Kugel

This is my  second time speaking with Emmy winning actor, Joe Pantoliano. We first sat down  for a face- to-face interview in December of 2010 when Panoliano was on a  publicity tour to promote the documentary film, No Kidding, Me Too!, about people living  with brain disease. During our 2010 chat, the wildly expressive character actor  regaled me with vivid stories from his childhood and adolescence, as well as his  recent diagnosis of clinical depression. At the time Pantoliano seemed  self-aware but still raw from some of his previous troubles with his depression  and the effects it caused within his family. At the time I wondered what the  next couple of years would bring for Joe Pantoliano.

Fast forward to  June 2012 when I received an email from Joe out of the blue telling me he  happened to read our original interview and he wanted to chat about his recently  released follow- up memoir, Asylum  (Pantoliano’s first memoir, Who’s Sorry  Now? was released in 2002). I read his new book, Asylum, and we scheduled some time to  chat about the book and what Pantoliano has been up to.

Our second  conversation was more laid back and familiar, and the Hoboken-bred character  they call Joey Pants seemed more at ease in his own skin, his sense of humor now  fully intact. This time I opted for off the cuff conversation in lieu of  structured questions. I wanted to see what flowed…

 

Allison Kugel:  It was comforting to read your new memoir, Asylum. You discuss how your success as  an actor paralleled your brain dis-ease, and your ultimate diagnosis and  treatment. I can honestly say “No Kidding, Me Too!” (nkm2.org, Panoliano’s org to erase the  stigma of brain dis-ease), because I suffer with Anxiety and Panic Disorder.  I’m in the same boat as you, and millions of others.

Joe Pantoliano  (Joey Pants): How long have you had it, your whole life?

Allison Kugel: I  have memories of being eight or nine and feeling anxious, or being eleven and  feeling like I had to touch a door knob a certain number of times or lock a door  three of four times. Since the mission of your organization, No Kidding, Me  Too!, is to de-stigmatize emotional issues and brain dis-ease I would be remiss  if I were not to disclose my own.

Joe Pantoliano:  There’s a dynamite documentary I just saw called The Company. It’s about corporate  America programming and manipulating the viewing public into buying their  products. When I was diagnosed with clinical depression I couldn’t understand  why I was depressed when everything was going good at face value. I had the  success I wanted, I was making the kind of money I wanted, I was sleeping with  the kind of women I wanted. All the things I thought were going to define me,  and so that I would never have to feel bad again. In that film they talk about  filling up the hole inside of you with people, places and things. At the time I  didn’t consider the fact that I was addicted to Vicodin and actually recovering  from Alcoholism. Those things played into the propensity for being a little more  sensitive to my environment. It’s what makes us artists. The anxiety you feel or  the depression I feel is actually reality telling you you’re going to the right  place, that you are getting closer to your discomfort or away from your  discomfort. They say that brain dis-ease comes in three parts; it’s genetic,  environmental and socio-economic.

Allison Kugel:  That’s what contributes to the symptoms developing.

Joe Pantoliano:  Now my dis-ease is my friend, it’s my warning apparatus, so to  speak.

Allison Kugel:  In your book, Asylum you explain how  your emotional issues, your “brain dis-ease” as you call it helped you to create  magnificent three dimensional characters. As a result you won a lot of  accolades. Was there a part of you that was afraid to get help or to get better  for fear of being a less effective actor?

Joe Pantoliano:  I never thought about that and at that point I didn’t care. Something had to  change, and if I had to change my career then so be it. I didn’t want to live  anymore. As it turned out, it was anything but that. It brought me closer to my  feelings.

Allison Kugel:  We share the same birthday, September 12^th, and the last time we  spoke we talked about how you had trouble celebrating your birthday after 9/11.  Can you celebrate your birthday now?

Joe Pantoliano:  No, I still have a hard time with it. Because I’m also [observing] the death of  three people that I really cared about. Also, I think I’ve gotten to the point  where I’m less narcissistic. It’s one thing to celebrate the birth of a ten year  old or a twenty-one year old, but when you celebrate turning fifty or sixty,  you’re just that much closer to your demise (laughs).

Allison Kugel:  In the past, since launching No Kidding, Me Too!, you’ve been to Washington to  speak before Congress. What did you accomplish there?

Joe Pantoliano:  It’s been a couple of years since I’ve been in Washington for that,  specifically. We wanted equal rights for the all-American brain. Insurance  companies do not treat emotional dis-ease with the same [consideration] that  they would with gall stones, or a gall bladder operation, or putting a stent in  your blood vessel because you have heart disease. There was a young boy in my  film named Jordan who was diagnosed with depression in the third grade. He was  only allowed one cognitive talk therapy session with a psychiatrist per month.  By his senior year [in high school] he was so despondent that he had turned to  alcohol. It was the only thing that helped him to feel better. He got caught and  he felt so badly about letting his parents down again that he decided to throw  himself out of his ninth floor bedroom window. He didn’t die. The minute he hit  the ground the clock started ticking and that same insurance provider paid for  the emergency medical helicopter, the fourteen operations that followed and the  physical therapy.

Allison Kugel:  All of that could have been avoided had the insurance company paid for talk  therapy.

Joe Pantoliano:  Yeah, so to get [congress] to understand about preventative medicine.  Just like we’re starting to learn that  preventative medicine is also what we eat, how we eat. Kids are getting Type 2  Diabetes because 60% of our nation’s adolescents are morbidly obese. The health  community is looking at it as a Diabetes issue. They’re not looking at it as a  symptom of a mental dis-ease. The way we are eating is symptomatic of the  dis-ease we feel inside.

Allison Kugel:  Aside from food, you also talk about a shopping addiction or unconscious  shopping, as you put it. What is the most outrageous unconscious purchase you  made?

Joe Pantoliano:  Just recently I bought a pair of these Lululemon  workout pants. You could wear them out to dinner or to a movie. They look like  dress pants and they were fairly expensive, and I didn’t remember buying them.  And I just bought a pair of Jimmy Choo motorcycle boots in black suede that were  on sale. My addiction is funny. I never pay full price. I stalk sales. I have to  have it, but I get to know the people in the store and I’ll ask them to hold it  for me until it takes a [price] hit. This stuff is instilled in us. My parents  were products of the Depression. There was always a fear about money and it was  a self-fulfilling prophecy. I no longer have the option to steal so I have to  look for the best bargain.

Allison  Kugel: So, when you were able to steal you stole?

Joe  Pantoliano: Yeah, because where I grew up that was a virtue, to be a good thief  and then to re-sell. I had a scam in high school where I went down to Orchard  Street to do my shopping. I used to go down there, this was like 1969, and I  would buy these T-shirts and I paid legit, retail, I paid two bucks each. Then  I’d stick them in the trunk of my father’s car and after school I sold them for  five dollars and told the kids they were stolen. The kids wanted to buy stolen  goods. The action of buying swag made them feel good, and made the clothes on  their back feel more important. And the motion picture industry is a great thing  because it’s the only product in America where you can sell something and still  own it.

Allison  Kugel: It’s been said that your cousin and step father, Florio, was a made man  in organized crime. Fact or fiction?

Joe  Pantoliano: One would think so. He always denied the fact that he was made, or  that he ever made his bones is what they called it. He was involved and  everybody knew him. He was in the penitentiary at the same time that Vito  Genovese was. Genovese was a family friend and he took care of Vito. He made  sure that he got his laundry done, protected him and got him midnight  sandwiches. I think that he would have been well taken care of had Vito not died  in prison… unless he was [made] and he didn’t want us to know  that.

Allison  Kugel: Was there ever a time when you considered organized crime or working with  your cousin Florio to be a viable option as an alternative to  acting?

Joe  Pantoliano: No, never. That was made really clear by Florio. He saw how he had  squandered his life away and realized how hard he worked. I think the guilt and  the way he lived showed, because he always lost what he made. When he had it he  threw it around like there was no tomorrow and he would lose whatever he had  from his ill-gotten gains at the track. He told me that every move he ever made  was the wrong move and that if I wanted [acting] I could do it, of course I  could do it. He said, “You think Sinatra and those guys, they don’t wipe their  ass every time they take a shit? There’s no difference between you and them.  They wanted it, they wanted it bad and they were lucky enough to get it. And you  just have to put in the work and be lucky enough to get it.” And then he said, “Stay away from these [neighborhood] guys, don’t ever ask them for a favor  because you’ll owe them for life.” And I listened.

Allison  Kugel: Some of your most iconic projects happened to be while you were  struggling the most, emotionally. On some of these sets, did any of your fellow  actors whether you confided in them or they picked up on your Vicodin use or  mood swings, did anyone ever say, “Something doesn’t seem right with  you.”?

Joe  Pantoliano: The only time to my recollection was when I was doing a TV show  called Easy Street on CBS, and Ken Olin thinking that I should look  into mind medication and emotional [help]. I remember thinking, “You’re funny.  You think I’m crazy, that’s funny!” But it was insightful on his part. My first  remembrance was feeling odd and losing the desire to go out, or going out and  doing things that were normally entertaining to do, and I was losing the fun. I  felt sad all the time and didn’t know why. Friends like Chazz Palminteri would  say, “What are you nuts?! You’re crazy. You’re sitting on top of the world.  You’re making more money than you could throw a stick at.” [But] I remember  Chazz Palminteri, he kidded me and he said, “Joey, you’re never gonna be the guy  with the name above the title. You got a twenty minute face.” I was laughing,  but it stung inside. And then I put my mind to getting my name above the title.  I got Bound and then I started doing these character leads in  movies.

Allison  Kugel: What are your thoughts on young Hollywood versus seasoned actors when it  comes to landing the best roles?

Joe  Pantoliano: My agent said it best, that the young audience doesn’t understand a  good actor from a reality star. Celebrity is celebrity whether you’re on Jersey Shore or you’ve starred in five or ten iconic movies. It doesn’t  matter. They just don’t get it and they don’t care.

Allison Kugel: What’s your opinion of shows  like Jersey Shore and The Real  Housewives?

Joe  Pantoliano: I don’t watch it. I think it’s really damaging. I think it’s another  nail in the coffin of this societal decline. Television caters to the lowest  denomination. If it’s being viewed, it doesn’t have anything to do with content.  It’s like, it’s being viewed, so let’s make more of that. It promotes  the kind of insidious, self-centered, narcissistic horseshit like The Real  Housewives… I was at a celebrity fundraising event and there was a woman  there that was one of these Housewives. Her husband committed  suicide…

Allison  Kugel: Taylor Armstrong…

Joe  Pantoliano: There she was, having breakfast across the way from me. You could  see she had all of this work done, and she was complaining how Amy Winehouse  knocked her off the cover of People Magazine because she up and died, and that  she would have gotten the cover because her husband committed  suicide.

Allison  Kugel: Are you kidding me?

Joe  Pantoliano: Not kidding you. That she was comparing herself to an artist. We  artists, we become artists because of our insecurity, that we want to say  something, we want to make a difference. I found actors that I wanted to emulate  and I wanted to be like them. I went to acting schools with teachers that I knew  they had studied with. I wanted to learn and be as good as they were. I went and  put it on the line and hoped to God I had the talent and good fortune to be able  to get what I wanted. Now what do these kids think? These kids are thinking, “Oh, I’ll be a reality star. Or do a sex tape and leak it out and become a  star.” You got to be careful showing these kids that stuff. I have a real pet  peeve about that. I just recently got rid of our cable box. If my kids want to  watch any kind of content they can do it on their lap top. I don’t know if I’m  an isolationist.

Allison Kugel: Being that you’re a Sopranos alumni, what other HBO show would you be a part of regardless  of the size of the part or the money offered?

Joe  Pantoliano: Now I’ve got this thing for Aaron Sorkin and The Newsroom.  I would work craft services on that. I just love how his mind works, and how  prolific he is as a writer.

Allison Kugel: You’d take any role on The  Newsroom, regardless of the size or content of the role, or what kind of  money they were offering you?

Joe  Pantoliano: Yup. I would do it in a heartbeat!

 

Joe Pantoliano’s  latest memoir, Asylum, is available at Amazon through  Weinstein Books. Follow him on Twitter @NKMToo or at nkm2.org.